TJ Agulto and Mark Ruiz - Social entrepreneurs; partners and colleagues at Rags 2 Riches and Hapinoy

December 4, 2008

Today’s youth cannot afford not to be extraordinary, claim TJ Agulto and Mark Ruiz, two of the country’s most promising social entrepreneurs.

 

TJ and Mark, an organizational change and consultancy coach, and innovation junkie, respectively, found their purpose in changing other people’s lives through social business entrepreneurship.  And this was their answer to leading extraordinary lives.

 

Partners and colleagues at Hapinoy and Rags 2 Riches, TJ and Mark set out to achieve the level of change they foresee in the country as social entrepreneurs, from a life dictated by routine and the security of the academe and corporate world.

 

TJ stepped down from his fulfilling teaching position at Xavier School two years ago while Mark left a high-paying management position at Unilever, to ultimately follow their passion and effectuate empowerment to those that need it most.

 

Find out more only here on Greater Good Philippines.

 

Jay-R Patron:  We’re starting our interview with Mark Ruiz and TJ Agulto of Hapinoy.  What do you guys do currently?  You can sum it all up in two sentences.

 

(Laughter)

 

Mark Ruiz:  It’s like four paragraphs.

 

I put it down to… I’m a passionate entrepreneur and innovation junkie.  And that is really where my world revolves around—social entrepreneur essentially with Hapinoy, Rags 2 Riches; and innovation advocate and junkie in terms of the other involvement such as the WhyNot? Forum, Inovent Design, and Kolektib.  I also teach innovation at Ateneo. 

 

Jay-R Patron:  How about you TJ?

 

TJ Agulto:  Also a social entrepreneur, focusing more on abundance creation and human development.  One, I’m with Mark in Hapinoy and Rags 2 Riches, but I’m also doing organizational change and consultancy, I’m a coach there.  It’s a coaching program that people go through to improve their quality of life.  And I also do organizational development.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What essentially is Hapinoy?  What does it do?

 

TJ Agulto:  Basically, it’s a sari-sari store chain.  A sari-sari store chain where it has one look, one image, one service, it’s a nationwide chain.

 

Jay-R Patron:  It’s like the McDonalds, Starbucks, or Jollibee of sari-sari stores.

 

TJ Agulto:  Exactly.  A wonderful image for Hapinoy is a network, a highway, where we connect all of these sari-sari stores already present in the Philippines and we allow goods and services to pass through this network.  The good thing about it is, one, it aggregates all of these stores, giving them an edge and bargaining power towards big manufacturers.  But more than that this highway, it encourages more small businesses.  We know very well we’re very good with producing.  A lot of Filipinos are very good in producing different products, but the most difficult part in the business is the marketing, bringing it to the market.  That’s where we see it at Hapinoy.  More than the stores, we see different small businesses going in the town and they would have this network of stores where they can have their goods and services available.  This means that small businesses can actually leap frog.  They don’t have to open their own outlet and be at the same time competitive with the bigger products.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Are you partners with any goods manufacturers?

 

Mark Ruiz:   Yes.  Actually that’s a very great way of putting it, what TJ said.  What I just wanted to add is the way we were able to tap with the network is working with micro-financing institutions.  I don’t know how familiar you are with micro-financing institutions but they started 30 years ago in Bangladesh.  Where it was seen that the guy who founded it, Mohammed Yunus, saw that the poor just needed access to capital.  Because of that they can basically create a micro business and hopefully get out of poverty.  It’s actually a proven tool now to alleviate poverty.  What TJ said, we just add one layer which is wherein we tied up with micro-financing institutions we create that whole network of stores and now that we have the stores, we also started partnering with suppliers.  We partnered with Unilever, Nestle, Colgate.  But also, what we’re realizing is we also partnered with, not just multinationals but also local companies, which is also very interesting for us.  But part of our road map is really to link up with the local producers.  These are the people who need intervention the most in order to access the market.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How did Hapinoy come about, from planning to execution?

 

Mark Ruiz:  It was just a convergence of a lot of things actually.  It was really a group that got together, people came from all sorts of difference backgrounds in order to put up Hapinoy.  It’s a social business enterprise; one half is actually what we call the business people, and one half is from the social side.  From the social side we have our chairman Rafa Lopa who is very well versed in the NGO world.  We have our vice-chairman Dr. Aris Alip who founded the largest Filipino micro-financing institution, CARD.  They’re our partners, in fact hey own part of the company.  And then Bam Aquino, our president came from government naman.  So that’s one half of the social side.  Talagang covered yung bases—NGO, MFI, and government.  The other side naman are the capitalists, I come in that side.  I came naman from corporate, from Unilever.  I spent seven years there.  The others are retirees of companies.  So basically it started with this group converging in order to start this idea to really help the bottom of the pyramid.  On a personal note naman, that was an area of expertise of a lot of the people on the board.  I came from Unilever and that was the life that I breathed also—sari-sari stores, public markets, you name it.  Two of our board members also, Manny Villuna and Perry Villa, are also very well versed in this field.  We got together, partnered with micro-financing institutions, and saw that we could actually help their borrowers.  Since the core expertise was sari-sari stores, we thought it could be best to help the sari-sari stores.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Did you encounter a lot of problems starting this organization?

 

Mark Ruiz:  A lot actually until now (Laughs).  I don’t think it’s problems naman in terms of hindrances because again, we really believe that this was sort of meant to be, medyo corny ah, but literally it was just everything falling in to place.  TJ was our first volunteer but now he was head of a division in Hapinoy.  We also became business partners in Rags 2 Riches.  He’s a board member there.  But literally, it’s pieces falling into place.  So I won’t call it hindrances in terms of the group getting together, being bonded by a common mission, and starting and moving on.  But I guess the challenges really are more of normal challenges of starting anything, especially starting anything new.  That would be difficulties in implementing the model, finding out which works or not.  With Hapinoy, a lot of the things from the beginning are things we’re really figuring out.  It’s not entirely new, I mean sari-sari stores exist but they’re fragmented.  Micro-financing institutions exist but they don’t have expertise in retail and organizing these stores.  We had expertise and knowledge in terms of sari-sari stores, but that’s not in the MFI context.  A lot of the challenges really are about finding out how to make this whole thing work, and evolving along the way really.  And again, not to lose sight of the vision, but we just really want to help these micro entrepreneurs.  TJ might want to add to a lot of our birth pains. 

 

TJ Agulto:  Some of them are also about being aligned.  We’re a small group.  We’re just 13 in the office and we’re running a thousand or two thousand stores all because of the partnerships.  We partner with micro-finance, we partner with different manufacturers, but you have to understand that these organizations are really different.  The identities are really different.  In a way, since we’re caught in the middle, with a lot of these organizations we have to adjust.  For example, with CARD, with micro-finance, their side is very NGO…

 

Jay-R Patron:  What organization is this?

 

TJ Agulto:  CARD, Center for Agriculture and Rural Development.  One of our challenges is actually having them, getting to listen and hear their inputs since especially they’re in the ground.  Sometimes from our corporate background, in the corporate, the training is basta you do it whatever happens and then you just tell what the things are that you have to do.  But in community organizing, in NGO, it’s different, it’s much slower, a lot of personality politics that needs to be considered.  So a lot of alignment in that sense.  The goal is very clear with this different organizations, but having to share the same DNA, that’s another thing.  What are the other challenges?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Growing.  We have big ambitions eh.  So growing is a challenge.  We have to reach a level of skill kasi we never imagine this to be… we want this to start small but we really want this to grow really really big.  And growth entails also a lot of challenges.  It entails challenges on the capability of the group to execute, ability of the group to systematize, ability of the group to really harness all the talents, all the brain work, all the effort in order for us to be able to grow.  That’s a big challenge for us right now.  We won’t be able to make a dent until we are really able to grow.  We really have to learn how to scale up.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What is an ordinary day at work to you like?

 

(Laughs)

 

TJ Agulto:  That’s actually one of the challenges because being a really flexible organization, being a startup also, we just basically meet on a Monday.  Everyone’s there, and then other days of the week we just go on our separate ways.  Basically communication is very important for us.  One of the challenges is keeping in touch, and being aligned with the goal, at the same time doing your own thing in the field.  One of the reasons why we had the meeting here is because there is wi-fi.  Ganoon kami eh noh, basta we have a wi-fi, internet, email, buhay na kami.  Actually it reminds me of the Jesuits eh because that’s how they are.  The handle is in Rome and the point is everywhere else.  And that’s how we are. 

 

Mark Ruiz:  A typical day really is there is no typical day.  That’s a good thing and a bad thing, but that’s the life we’re living eh.  It’s very exciting. 

 

TJ Agulto:  The freedom.

 

Mark Ruiz:  The freedom also.  We’re social entrepreneurs so in a sense we’re not really on a nine to five.  But most of the time it’s like a five to nine.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Which farthest place from Metro Manila has work brought you?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Last weekend I was in Ormoc, Leyte because of a micro-financing conference.  We’ve been to all sorts of place because of Hapinoy—mostly Visayas, not in Mindanao though.  But we  really want to get in to Mindanao.

 

TJ Agulto:  Most of the time we actually travel to the south because we’re piloting there.  South Luzon like Batangas, Quezon, Laguna.  Most of our activities are there; one, because our main partner CARD is there, their headquarters is there.  At least their system or manpower is really accessible.

 

Jay-R Patron:  If one person would like to look for a Hapinoy store, how would he or she identify one?

 

Mark Ruiz:  The look.  It looks like…

 

Jay-R Patron:  Do you have any particular theme?  Color?

 

Mark Ruiz:  We painted it.  All of them are Hapinoy orange.  They have a common look.  We really invested, not we per se, but really we spent a lot of time thinking about the brand.   Sari-sari stores come in so many different shapes and sizes but what we do entail at a bare minimum is that they’re all painted Hapinoy orange, and they have a mascot.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What is Hapinoy?  That brand, that name?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Where did it come from?  What does it stand for?  Our discipline also said that we also needed to create a brand and so we could have easily called kasi most of the attempts for this thing are “Cooperative sari-sari store of ganyan ganyan”.  But that’s not really what we wanted to create, we wanted to create a brand.  We want to create an impact to consumers, to manufacturers, to the world at large that we’re creating a branded chain of sari-sari stores.  So why Hapinoy?  Mainly because, that was actually an idea of Franco Sevilla, one of our board members.  He used to be a creative director in an advertising  so that’s what he brought in.  We wanted a play of word between happy and Filipino, because actually we work at micro-financing eh.  We were inspired by this study that actually said that Filipinos, despite all of the challenges, are inherently happy.  Hindi naman kasi nagtatanga-tangahan ang Pilipino dahil iniignore niya yung problems, but it boils down to two values, which are resilience and… forget lang the other one.  So basically, Filipinos are happy not because they ignore the bad problems but because they’re resilient already and they learn to just go through…. very resilient talaga ang Pinoy eh.  So we wanted to build on that.  We wanted to create a positive image for the lowly sari-sari store with happy Filipino, so Hapinoy.  We wanted to instill pride in the store owners, and at the same time, we wanted to spread “happiness” to everybody who is able to visit a Hapinoy store.  It’s the same thing with our brand.  If you think about Filipino, happy… so ganun.  May fiestas din kami.  Our activities are done by TJ.  The activities done by TJ are happy, they have a Hapinoy flavor.  We want to spread a level of happiness, grounded happiness.

 

TJ Agulto:  And underneath that happiness is a certain sense of positivism, a positive outlook.  Being a social business enterprise basically what you obviously see is the business side eh.  Since the goal of Hapinoy is to help sari-sari stores and other people in that area to create their own businesses, we noticed that having a very positive outlook will actually make you, will enable you to start your own micro businesses.  That’s one.  And then second, more than a business, we also see Hapinoy as a social… we have a social objective also.  We see Hapinoy as a light in the community, a source of positive influence to people.  Because usually in the media, whenever you’d look at the sari-sari store, what are the usual things that are associated with the sari-sari store?  May naglalasingan diyan, di ba?  Tapos rumors, or utang… napaka-negative nung image nung sari-sari store.  But at the same time it’s a very crucial vein in the life of the neighborhood.  We wanted to create di lang economic change, economic difference, but also a difference in the consciousness of the Filipino.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Let’s talk about Rags 2 Riches briefly.  What is Rags 2 Riches?  How did it come about?

 

TJ Agulto:  You want pictures?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Rags 2 Riches naman, it’s a social business enterprise and we help out the community in Payatas.  It’s really funny, but again this is one of those meant-to-be things.  It’s actually a convergence of many groups also—so Payatas and Rajo Laurel, Brother Javi, and other young professionals, all sorts of convergence points.  I got involved because I teach a class on innovation.  I told Brother Javi na parang I want some of the students to work on something meaningful, so that’s how we got exposed.  Tj and I were together in Hapinoy already.  And then he was asking what other things can be done.  I was mentioning this project to him, and TJ, very entrepreneurial, in one week he had a meeting with Rajo Laurel and that actually set Rags 2 Riches into the high-end line, that meeting with Rajo Laurel.  In summary, Rags 2 Riches helps the community in Payatas.  We’re actually available here in Greenbelt.  Basically, we started realizing that the nanays were being spilled by middlemen.  They were only making one to two pesos per rug.  So we said, “How do we do that?  That’s not fair.  They’re making ten to twenty pesos a day,” and the middlemen are making so much more money.

 

Jay-R Patron:  So you must have created enemies because of that?

 

Mark Ruiz:  On the ground, some of the middlemen.  But we think of it more as increasing the pie.  It can’t be helped that some middlemen were really put out of the equation.  But basically, they were just buying rugs.  They never went in to fashion accessories.  So now, from ten to twenty pesos a day, our goal really is minimum wage for these mothers; and eventually we want them to own this business and our company, since it’s a social business enterprise, we’re going to focus on R&D and Marketing and Sales, and then we’ll have partnerships with the mothers.  So it’s a community also that we’re helping out. 

 

Jay-R Patron:  Do you guys have any particular success stories?

 

TJ Agulto:  For Hapinoy, last year we piloted with seven lead stores.  Lead stores are like, in a town, there’s this one… it’s a chosen store which acts as the sub-distributor in that area.  The other smaller stores would actually get the products from her.  So the agent will drop the products to the lead store.  So basically we had a pilot of seven and when we met them, we had a weekend training set up with them, we met them last year, most of them were very quiet, a lot of fears.  But you know, after one year, like last week, four of them could already speak in front of a thousand people in the ABS-CBN Grand Kapamilya.  From ten thousand peso a day in sales, they would jump to fifty thousand pesos a day.  Mas mayaman pa sila sa amin.  We started to joke na nga eh.  “Ok, when Hapinoy goes to Metro Manila, we have our own areas, our own lead stores.”

 

Jay-R Patron:  So Hapinoy operates mainly outside of Metro Manila?

 

TJ Agulto:  At this point, because the urban market is different.  It’s dynamically different.  For example, we have this lead store, si Jenny, she’s my favorite, she’s our poster girl.  Her store before was just this big, this painting, just window with all the products.  Right now she has a second branch, and her second branch was a structure that she had built, three floors.  She’s the first one to have a second branch in that town.  Another one, si Rosa, before she was a security girl.  At first she was hesitant to join the program, and she was just renting.  She was renting a small place for her lead store.  But right now, nagpapagawa na rin siya ng her own store.  Paminsan nagugulat nga rin kami kasi yung cost niyan, napapaikot niya ba yung pera?  But these are signs that they are really improving.  Two weeks ago , I was talking to Edith and Lalin, those are two of our lead stores also.  I was surprised, they had an agreement that they would go to Hong Kong next year by March.  These things before weren’t in the realm of their possibilities.  But now, “Oh, mare ah, magtrabaho tayo mabuti and then punta tayo Hong Kong.”  And more than the economic growth that have, that they went through, it’s the personal growth also.  Again, not being able to speak in front and then now they can engage people.  Like Jenny can speak to foreigners. 

 

Mark Ruiz:  And it goes back to what we’re really trying to do.  We talk about empowerment, so it’s not just, while we always look at the business side—that’s very important to us, just what TJ said.  What TJ does is development for our lead stores.  He actually coaches all of them on the personal side to really reach that level.  Because what we’ve realized is that you can’t just give them a larger business, they also have to mature, they also have to grow as a person.  In fact, the next phase for us is for them to be community leaders, meaning leaders of the entire community.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What’s the ratio between men and women store owners?

 

Mark Ruiz:  They’re all women.

 

TJ Agulto:  Because of the micro-finance.  Because the micro-finance only gives to women.

 

Mark Ruiz:  Because the statistics are, the sad facts are—for all of you readers out there, or listeners—that if you lend to a male, only 50 percent only pays, because a lot of it goes in to vice.  But if you lend to a woman, kung single or married, around 90 percent, but kung head of household, like a mother, it’s 99 percent and you’re sure that it will go to children, the money I mean.

 

Jay-R Patron:  So outside of Hapinoy, Rags 2 Riches, what do you guys do during your free time? (Laughs) …if there’s any?

 

TJ Agulto:  Ako, I swim and I prepare for the triathlon.  Every morning I do laps, and then I jog.  That’s because I’m an outdoor guy.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Is it you who does mountain climbing? 

 

TJ Agulto:  Yes.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Are you member of any clubs?

 

TJ Agulto:  No, I just go with friends.  I’ve already climbed Pulag and Apo, the highest peak in the Philippines. 

 

Jay-R Patron:  How did that go?

 

TJ Agulto:  It was fun.  Communing with nature, pushing yourself to the limit.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How long did it take you to reach summit?

 

TJ Agulto:  For Apo, three days.  And that was a very easy climb, we call it “petiks”.  “Yung  Mt. Apo, petiks lang yan.”  It’s really about also pushing yourself to your limit, and camaraderie.  If you climb Apo Mountain with someone you know how this person is, the personality—the way they share water, orthey conserve how much water that we have.  That’s one.  I also do real estate.  I foreclose property.  Again, if the idea in Hapinoy is to share and create abundance—that’s a major philosophy that we have in Hapinoy—abundance creation, that everyone can be happy and everyone can be rich, I also have to experience it for myself.  It’s also about passive income, investment, and at the same time, it’s going to give me the freedom to do these things.

 

Mark Ruiz:  Sadly, I’m very unathletic (laughs).  But I try to run at least three times a week in the gym, no weights.  I used to surf but I haven’t gone, two years na.  What I do love, I love to read, I love to just hang out with my girlfriend, and we like going around different places, traveling—but mostly in the country lang, on some weekends.  And bulk of the time I spend online.  I’m always online, or watching movies or watching DVDs.  I’m an entertainment junkie also.   On the side I teach.  I love teaching.  I find time for that despite the hectic schedule.  I have a class every Thursday night in Ateneo.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What’s that?  Innovation…?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Business Innovation Management.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What exactly is that?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Well, basically teaching students to come up with great business ideas that are more grounded in the real world.  I really wanted to have a different flavor in teaching, so meaning, school is about memorize, you recite, you answer quizzes.  I wanted to take out a lot of that now being in the real world, and being an entrepreneur; open their paradigm that is not just about memorizing.  But secondly also, for them to start thinking about the power of great ideas because I realize that a lot of the times, students are taught how to plan really well, that’s important.  But they are not taught well enough to think of the great ideas that they should plan about.  20 percent of the time is my business idea, 80 percent of the time is a 300-page feasibility study.  Pero parang, syempre may idea eh, but if you have a lousy idea, even if you have a 1000-page business plan,it’s going to flunk.  But if you have a really great idea and invest 80 percent of the time there, invest 20 percent of that time, at least medyo buhay ka na.  I mean Hapinoy started without a business plan, Rags 2 Riches started without a business plan.  But it’s just really a great idea.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Started meaning you were operating already without a business plan?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Started meaning, normally we were taught to come up with a 20-page business plan, get investors, to tell us how we go.  It was just a great concept that had a semblance of a plan.  Di naman kami dove into it blindly, pero we focused on a great concept.  But also right now that we’re growing, we also have to instill that discipline of planning.  My class is just about changing the paradigm of students to think bigger, change ideas, and drown them in that sense that… kasi paradigm shift eh.  I tell my students that a lot of the things that other teachers are teaching you, I will help you unlearn. 

 

Jay-R Patron:  Where do you teach?

 

Mark Ruiz:  In Ateneo.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How did you guys balance your time between work and play?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Actually that’s lesson that TJ always says about self-care.  Sadly, for me it’s not a reality whenever I’m able to steal time I get to relax.  Weekends I try to make it a point to speed that up, quality time.  Sometimes in our line of work, hindi maiiwasan eh, na may Saturdays and Sundays.  But that having been said, in our lifestyle nga, there are days naman na wala talaga kaming work, meaning  if we don’t have meetings, na medyo we’re free.  We’re relatively freer.  It’s a struggle to juggle it, to be very honest.

 

TJ Agulto:  And just being conscious also, what makes us feel better.  It does not have to be naman a certain part of the schedule eh, because our lifestyle is not scheduled, there’s no regimen there.  Being aware also of how I am at work, if I’m noticing na “Oh, mabilis ako.”  I know that’s one of my weaknesses, self-care.  I instantly catch myself, if in work I start being cranky, I start to be more closed, I get to connect it and “Ok , I think I need to take care of myself.”

 

Jay-R Patron:  One are some of the, if ever there are, some of the things that you have sacrificed or compromised just to be where you are?

 

Mark Ruiz:  I left corporate.  I resigned two years ago at a high position.  I still have not made up the salary I was making then.  That was already a very good salary.  But not to say that I’m in the poor house, but just to say that I’ve adjusted my lifestyle also a little bit.  But again, I mean we’re not pretending to be martyrs here.  We really eventually see a point in time that, ako my goal is to make more than I was making when I was in corporate.  But right now, I mean in the past two years, it was really a lifestyle adjustment for me.  So things before na, di ko yan pag-iisipan bilhin, ngayon kailangan ko pag-isipan.  Before I would just think, “I want to go abroad or something,” hindi na pinag-iisipan yun—all of the gadgets and all of that.  But now I really have to plan it.  Materially, that was something very concretely given up.  But what I’ve gained, incomparable.  I would never ever think about even going back.  Again, the goal is to surpass that but I’m not yet there.  Yun lang eh, what I have traded off.  But what I got in return, hindi talaga pwede lagyan ng presyo eh.

 

Jay-R Patron:  That leads me to another question.  What are the values that you see in what you do, like you Mark, why did you leave corporate and do something that would benefit others, instead of just earning money, instead of just fulfilling your bottomline?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Purpose.  It’s not an easy… it was a long discernment process also.  At the end of the day, you really see that… where will you be truly happy?  I guess that’s a question for everybody.  And where you are… I mean it sounds corny but where you are happiest is where you really sort of figure out what it is that you want to do.  I spent a lot of time thinking about that.  I guess the core of why I’m into this thing is really purpose.  Personal purpose, hopefully purposes of the organizations we’re in, and hopefully a higher purpose of what this whole thing is trying to do, which is really for Hapinoy, empowering the unempowered.  On a personal level, I just discovered that a life with meaning is more important than the previous life that I was living.  It’s really just as simple as that.  It sounds corny, it sounds cliché, but if you just know what you really want to do and it is what you are really meant to do then it becomes easier.  Purpose… if you look at all the things that we’re about, it boils down to that.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What about you TJ?

 

TJ Agulto:  In connection to that, it’s about knowing who you really are.  For me, I was teaching in school, but I kind of felt… and I was moderating the student council, but I was doing a lot of these things.  But I felt that my personality doesn’t fit there, doesn’t fit that kind of structure, which is very rigid, very conservative.  Finding the right environment where I can really be myself and I noticed that I’m very entrepreneurial and start a lot of good ideas, so I try to look for an environment that nurtures that personality.  Yes, it sounds cliché about the purpose, my school has been so good in ingraining that sense of doing something greater than yourself.  For me, that has become part of who I really am.  Before I thought it was just something that was just imposed on me, and I’m trying to rid myself of it.  But now, it’s an intricate part of who I am.  I went to this recollection, and three desires came up; one is to take care of myself, and to love myself; second is to make a very strong impact and very big change in the country.  Coming from a psych background, it’s so easy to doubt and psycho-analyze it, but after all the psycho-analyzing.  But after all the psycho-analysis, after all the doubting, the desire is still there.  Maybe there’s something deeper to it than just grandiose need to be messianic .  And then the third purpose, the strong desire that I have, is to just walk faithfully with God, in any way that I’m called.  Those three desires.

 

Mark Ruiz:  Just to close the loop.  On my end naman, when I was discerning, it started out by… I was thinking lang… I just wanted to create jobs.  I guess that was my mantra when I left.  I really come from more of a business background talaga and I contribute more to business and partially on the social side, but my purpose, I would like to believe, is to create jobs for the country, and then eventually, bringing high-value jobs to the country.  That became my mantra right now which is innovation—innovation in social development, innovation in high value skills, innovation and advocacy in education.  That’s really what I am about right now.  Innovation in social development is happening in Rags 2 Riches, innovation in education that is why I teach a class in innovation, innovation in high value skills—that’s our industrial design firm, innovation as an advocacy—Why Not? Forum.  Purposely, I’d like to make the Philippines more innovative.  That is really a big chunk of what I am passionate about. 

 

Jay-R Patron:  How was your childhood like?

 

TJ Agulto:  It was really fun.  Out of all the apos, I was the most makulit and adventurous.  My lola would have a heart attack because I would climb things and then jump.  I was really adventurous.  Although I studied in Xavier where a lot of affluent Chinese are studying, I grew up in a place in Baclaran… I grew up playing piko, playing street games.  I had a gang in my neighborhood, and then we would have gang wars with the other guys from the other street.  I had the best of both worlds.  I’ve seen that.  And then second, in our house there’s no distinction between servant and masters.  We eat the same food, we eat on the same table, we eat on the same plate, I guess that is one of the motivations also to recreate this experience at home in this world where there is so much inequality.  There was a lot of abundance that I have experienced.  My titas being flight attendants, would give me so many things—chocolates, toys, cup noodles… yan wala pa yan during that time.  It’s all about recreating that and seeing that, “I want to recreate that wonderful when I was a child, here right now in my world.”  We have this what you call the homing gene where you try to recreate the home that you experience in the first seven years of your life in your present world, in your present situation.

 

Mark Ruiz:  I have had a sheltered life I think.  We grew up in Cubao and eventually transferred in a subdivision in Blue Ridge.  I’m very lucky that I lived a sheltered life.  My parents are very loving, very caring.  I grew up in that kind of environment and also, what I appreciate most about my parents is they gave us a lot of space, yung kaming magkakapatid.  I never really felt any pressure to be anybody to take this track.  I’ve always enjoyed a nurturing environment, I’ve always enjoyed freedom… those two things.  And comfort I guess.  Hindi naman maranghiya, but I never really went to a period that wala kaming makain.  None of that stuff.  No family tragedies, none of that.  So medyo sheltered actually.  If I look at that, I think the big contributor is the Jesuit education.  I really think that’s a large part of the brain-washing, I think it sticks with you.  My only reflection about this, which I find a little bit interesting, is that all my life it has been about safety, being safe.  No pressure from my parents but there was always that unsaid expectation to take choices.  My dad was an engineer; my mom was corporate for 30 plus years.  Very safe choices.  I took a course that was very safe, management engineering.  After graduating from college, I went to a very very safe company, which is a multinational.  Para siyang may linear line of safety.  So the past two years was a disjoint, but I would like to think that it was an exponential period of growth—from safety to a life of an entrepreneur, a social entrepreneur at that.  So para siyang, from childhood to a certain break in the past two years, but that is what I find interesting if I just reflect on my childhood.

 

Jay-R Patron:  You guys have answered it already but who in particular have influenced you to think and act the way do, being one for others?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Madami yun…

 

TJ Agulto:  Ang dami… a string of people.

 

Mark Ruiz:  Well of course, parents.  But they were never the advisory kind.  They were like more of, “find your own playground and play.  We will love and support you whatever happens.”  When I resigned, which is probably to most parents suicide, my parents just said, “If that’s what you want, go ahead.”  But they were really worried, especially my mom, who was in corporate all her life.  But they said, “Sige, if that’s what you really want, we’ll go and support you.”  My parents definitely, teachers also in the whole Ateneo—which is probably why I also decided to teach, locally there are a few.  When I was in corporate, obviously I had mentors there, mga big boss naming before.  I really make it a point to find really good mentors.  But kung meron din naman tayo on the other extreme, which is parang, “who do you look up to?” Parang meron akong weird equation niyan eh, “Who are the people that you really look up to and hope that you’ll be like some day?”  Sadly, wala masyadong local, wala masyadong Filipino, but international eh.  So I said, yung equation ko, “I would one day hope to be Bono plus Steve Jobs plus Mohammad Yunus.”  So Hapinoy and Rags 2 Riches is sort of Mohammad Yunus, yung micro-financing guy.  Steve Jobs, I mean the industrial design firm, we’re launcing a tech product, like a Filipino Apple.  So medyo mafu-fulfill na yan.  So yung Rockstar na lang, yun na lang ang kailangan ko ma-work on.  Pero kasi si Bono, seriously, I mean Rags 2 Riches… what he did with (Eton) that is an inspiration also for Rags 2 Riches and all of the stuff he is doing, I mean rockstar with a conscience.  So I need to have a band before I’m 35.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Do you play any instruments?

 

Mark Ruiz:  When I was younger… but sadly not a lot of talent there.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How about you TJ, any particular person?

 

TJ Agulto:  I have teachers who believed in me, but I think particularly my students, being a teacher before.  I noticed that I had such an impact with the students, and I kind of felt that I want to walk the talk.  I taught morality and social justice.  It’s about also showing my students that these things are not just ideals that you have during your religion classes, but I really wanted to show them that it is really possible.  When I was in Xavier, it’s all about that eh, bringing out the possibilities in the students.  I teach my students that these are all possible, not just high school ideals.  My biggest joy in Xavier was when I really showed a lot of belief in particular students.  There was this student in first year, he was so quiet and doubting of himself.  But come third year, he ran for student council president.  Those transformations are really priceless for me.  I think what I’m doing right now is, one, showing them that it is possible, and then second, showing that I believe in myself.  I’ve been believing in a lot of people but one of my difficulties also is believing in myself, that I can create this big impact.  I’m sure you are familiar with a Nelson Mandela quote, “Our greatest fear is not that we’re inadequate, but because we are capable far beyond our imagination.”  And it’s all about that, unlocking that capacity to create significant impact not only in school but also in society.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What is the most important lessons that you’ve learned that you keep to this day?

 

TJ Agulto:  Always trying to see where the person is coming—trying to see things from his or her point of view.  In connection to that, respecting differences… that people are not me.  I think that’s a big thing, understanding how people work and how to bring out the best… spending expectations of people, and simply taking them as they are.

 

Mark Ruiz:  I’m struggling between two noh.  Siguro ano na lang, don’t let anybody tell you that it cannot be done.  That’s very important, it’s really literally a belief that it can be done—with the right idea, with the right group, with the right partners, with the right mission, with the right intention, I mean everything is possible.  I guess it has guided my decisions, guided my actions.  All of the things that we’re in to are a little bit crazy. But it’s really rooted in that belief.  Don’t let anybody tell you it cannot be done. 

 

Jay-R Patron:  Did you start your career with Unilever?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Yes, with Unilever.  I spent seven years there.  It was the first job I had.  I joined in 1999.  I was already a senior manager when I left.  I was already part of a global team in my field.  It’s a great company.  I always have good words about it.  In fact, I always say that I didn’t resign because I hated my job.  That’s a lie.  I actually love my job.  I love the company, I love the people I was working with.  But I just love what I’m doing now more.  I have no bad words about it.  I always say that probably it’s the only company that I will ever work for.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Ok, greatest challenge.  What has been your greatest challenge and how did you overcome it?

 

Mark Ruiz:  Actually it’s focus.  That’s a challenge for me.  I’m in love with so many great ideas and a lot of things that need to be done.  I really think I have to narrow and focus some more.  In fact, what’s on my plate right now is a… in a certain sense, I also sort of rationalize meaning there are things I say no to also.  But it just so happens… siguro that’s it.  That’s a challenge for me.  That’s something that I still have not cracked.  I see a lot of people they say relentlessly focus on a few key things.  So yung few key things ko right now are a lot of key things.  I think that’s challenge for me also and because of the lack of focus and trying to do so much, that also spills in to the earlier question about balance.  I thnk balance is a challenge also, personal challenge I mean.  If it’s work kind of challenge naman, it’s really growing all of these different initiatives.  If you really think about it, it’s great that we were actually able to process those ideas.  Hindi lang naming pinag-uusapan at iniisip but we actually make it happen.  But the challenge really is to grow.  If Hapinoy doesn’t reach a hundred thousand stores, I would consider it not really what it was meant to be.  If we are not able to really work with the nanays in Payatas to create more prosperity and abundance, then the job is not yet done.  It’s really growing and making sure that all of these things we’re doing really work.  It’s growing these things, transitioning them from a start up to enterprises. 

 

TJ Agulto:  Trusting.  One, trusting myself, trusting my capabilities, especially coming from an academic background now you’re engaged in all of these corporations.  It’s a whole different world for me.  Kaya kong makipag-sabayan with these people in that level but at the same time, in my work also, trusting the partners, from the nanay level to the trainors to the sponsors, manufacturers, trusting that they also have the same vision, believing in the same goals of the organization, and nurturing that relationships.  Relationships are based on a lot of trust, really being open… before, for example, one of the learning experiences that I’ve had was when we were handling certain sponsor corporations.  I was afraid to tell them that maybe we can’t do this.  But it’s really a partnership that you know from an owner’s point of view would tell them that we can’t do this.  So a lot of trust in our partners.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How about achievement?  What has been your greatest achievement so far?

 

Mark Ruiz:  I think the best is still ahead of me.  But right now, on a personal level, it’s really making that transition, deciding to take that leap.  It’s probably not an achievement in a lot of people’s eyes but really taking that, having that guts to actually turn my back on a linear line.  Sobrang predictable nung buhay nay un.  Kung baga if I stayed on that level, tapos na, ok na, comportable na yung buhay—get married, kids, all of that.  I mean say no to all of that, and then jumping into this roller coaster ride is something I consider…

 

Jay-R Patron:  How old were you when you resigned?

 

Mark Ruiz:  That was 2006… 29, 28 or 29.  July 2006, so 26… ay hinde sorry masyadong…. 29… ay hinde, sorry last 28.  Then I turned 29 that year.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How about you TJ, greatest achievement?

 

TJ Agulto:  I think when it was the last year of my teaching.  It was learning to perfectly mix that art of tough and soft love.  As a religion teacher… they would fail in religion class.  Just imagine, during parent-teacher conferences, I would start at 8 and end at 7pm.  The line is really… parang box office eh noh?  I mean ang haba ng pila.  The first two years, the students would really kill me and in class I would also be an asshole in certain point, and I’ve learned to master that.  I’ve learned to master being intent and pushing them to their limit but at the same time being well-loved because they see the point.  The time I learned that lesson, my fourth year of teaching, that was the time I felt I needed to leave already.  But I remember this time when I was saying my good bye to my class, I’m usually close to the siga ones eh, yung talagang sige of the batch—the athletes, the bullies—can you imagine these siga people, when I said goodbye, there was a five minute break, so I left and in the hall way they followed me and then we just group hugged and they were crying for all the batchmates to see.  So having that kind of impact with these siga, these hard core, was really moving for me.  Even right now, whenever I’d see students, whenever I’d meet them somewhere, they would say, “Sir you know, everything I needed to learn, I already learned in your class. College is simply elaborating what I’ve learned.”  So for me, making them feel that I really care for them and at the same time pushing them to be excellent.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How does faith play in your lives?

 

TJ Agulto:  It’s everything…

 

Mark Ruiz:  It’s a core component.  I mean you don’t get to this line of work without faith.  I think we’re testimonies to that.  We chose a life that necessitates that faith for us to keep on moving.  Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to romanticize this life.  It’s difficult.  And again, without believing that it’s part of a higher purpose, that it’s being driven by somebody greater than you.  Then you would not really be in this kind of… you would think that social entrepreneur, tumutulong ka na nga, madly ang buhay mo.  But hinde, it’s a very difficult life.  You can’t do this thing without faith, not just on the day-to-day struggles, but also in light of a greater thing that you’re trying to do.  You can’t get there without believing that this is something greater than you and it is being moved by a force that is greater than you. 

 

TJ Agulto:  Mark is very active in Life Directions Retreat, it’s a faith-based community.  I’m also active in Christian Life community.  Especially in this kind of life, community is very important—people where you can just go home to and rant and cry for whatever is happening with your work.  It’s not a career eh, it’s a sense of mission, sense of vocation.  For me faith is everything.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Why is it important for business owners to think beyond bottom line?

 

Mark Ruiz:  There is a practical way to look at it.  But there’s really a… there’s a pragmatic way to look at it but there’s also a way to look at it in terms of a different lens or a larger perspective.  The pragmatic side really is, as a business owner, you can’t get away with doing business as usual without thinking of the impact that you’re creating to the community, to the people, to the customers, to the world at large.  That is a model of the past.  I mean Nike before could get away with slave workers in third world countries, but not anymore.  Large corporations like oil companies no longer live in a world where they can just continue to pump in all of these… basically ransack the environment.  We’ve transitioned in to a world that corporations need that sense of social responsibility, this aspect of CSR.  That’s the pragmatic view, if you look at it from a business stand point.  But there’s also another way to look at it, which is the fact that the most successful businesses, I believe, are the ones that are really hinged on a strong sense of purpose and that should permeate everything.  I mean that’s really the way businesses should be run now.  It should be hinged on a very strong sense of purpose, greater than just what it is trying to do, because it will have an impact to the world, it will have an impact to consumers who will buy from them, and it will also have an impact to employees.  A lot of people are leaving companies not because they’re not compensated well enough, but because they feel that their work is meaningless.  As an employer, if you don’t give your employees that sense of purpose as an initiative, then you’re going to lose them out.  For customers also who are becoming more conscious of what the company’s… are they responsible.  Studies have shown that customers have preferences now for socially responsible companies.  But most importantly also, if that company, it’s really fundamentally hinged on a certain core purpose, then I really believe that’s what will make it successful.  I mean whether it be a social enterprise or a normal business, I mean Google, it’s not technically a social enterprise, but it’s very hinged on a strong core purpose and that is to organize the world’s information.  They’re not a website search company.  That’s not who they are, and that’s probably… some of the websites that have died.  But Google, what consumes them is a sense of mission that they want to literally organize the world’s information.  I think that’s what makes them successful.  Apple, to create products that people truly love, and that’s what drives them.  Now you go into social business enterprises where the core purpose is even more tangible and even more inspiring.  You talk of different kinds of model talaga.  I think it’s just the way business has to be done in this day and age.

 

TJ Agulto:  Given what is happening right now, with technology, more and more are becoming more aware of our power.  More and more… humanity is becoming more aware of how powerful we are.  I guess, for me, I’ve always thought that if you really want to create change in the world, it’s actually through business, because business has the resources, business has the discipline in making these lasting changes.  In this growing awareness, there’s a growing consciousness… it’s a more philosophical point of view, but there’s a growing consciousness of, one, our connectedness, but at the same time, our power to really change things.  For us, before, the end of poverty is a promise land, something that we will never achieve in our lifetime.  But given our, realizing or discovering our potential and power right now, that can happen in our lifetime.  And like what Yunus said, hopefully (inaudible) and I feel… for me that’s a very strong purpose for business, to really go in to these things.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Why did you go from teaching to doing other things?

 

TJ Agulto:  I guess, one, I’m trying to find an environment that suits me; unstructured, adventurous, starting a lot of things, taking a lot of risks.  That’s one.  Probably it’s also my purpose.  I’ve always told my students to create something different that would be the change, to create the change in the world.

 

Jay-R Patron:  How long have you been a teacher?

 

TJ Agulto:  Four years.  That was my first job.

 

Jay-R Patron:  Why is it important for people to volunteer, to solve social issues?

 

TJ Agulto:  From a pragmatic point of view, to find out what their passion is, to find out their sweet spot, to find out their calling, where they really want to put their lives on the line.  We have volunteers who come and go, and it’s ok with us.  We also help people to find their place under the sun, so they can take their place under the sun.  So volunteering is to give you a lot of information about yourself.  In the words of Pedro Arrupe, he is the father general of the Society (of Jesus), “…to help you find where you’re in love with.”  Once you find what you’re in love with, it will actually decide everything—what you will read, what you will do, what will make you cry, what will make you get up in the morning.  To find where you’re totally in love with. 

 

Mark Ruiz:  Exactly.  I call volunteering… I started out as a volunteer, so it wasn’t as if one day I resigned and looked for what I wanted to do.  A metaphor I use for volunteering is like sampling the buffet.  And I really recommend to people to sample the buffet by volunteering to a lot of different things.  Think of it as a trial, sampling the buffet, to boil down to really what you’re looking for.  First round at the buffet table, the tendency is to get a little bit of everything.   Fill up your plate with all sort of different things.  That’s round one.  Round two, you just get two or three things that you really like.  And for me, that’s how it has played out in my life.  I started out a lot in volunteering.  I actually volunteered for the National Youth Commission.  That was my first taste of… they had a youth entrepreneurship program so that’s helping out to a certain extent, a taste of micro-financing—iVolunteer, Life’s Direction, Filipino One, all these different things, and eventually, I just select what I really like.  There was a time involving 10 or 15 organizations and then I just cut.  It’s really just a way to find out what you’re very passionate about.

 

Jay-R Patron:  If there was one message out of the whole conversation tonight that you would like to tell our readers or listeners, what would that message be?

 

TJ Agulto:  Something that came to my mind, something that I quote from Mark, “We can’t afford, at our age right now, we can’t afford not to live extraordinary lives.”  We can’t afford to be ordinary, given how much we’re aware of our potential, of our powers, given the technology now.  The youth cannot afford to be ordinary.

 

Mark Ruiz:  Go for it.  I have observed that from a zombie nation we have to be a go for it generation, and I think that if people just go for it, which is really a nice way of saying follow your passion, I think that’s really it.  I think a lot of people are just stuck because they are not going for it.  Parang, “I am ok with my job, I am safe, I am stable, I am comfortable,” because they don’t go for it then we’re stuck with it.  Not naman mediocrity but basically people who are living in a state of limbo and we really have to break out of that.  If there was one message, whatever it is that you want to do, then go for it.  We went for it.  We’re not yet super successful but we’re happy, and we’re consumed by the idea that eventually we’ll reach it.

 

Jay-R Patron:  What can we expect from you guys in the future—in the coming days, months, a year from now?

 

Mark Ruiz: We’re committed to this.  Again, like TJ said, this is not a job, this is a vocation.  What you can expect is that, for me personally, it’s really to achieve what we really set out to achieve with Hapinoy, which is to reach our scale and help out a lot of others, help the local producers; for sari-sari stores, bring a lot of prosperity.  Similar to Rags 2 Riches, to be able to reach that stage that all of them are really living more comfortable lives—organized and empowered as communities running this business by themselves.  For me, expect to just not stop along this line.  And probably a few more seductive ideas that come across the way, I probably won’t be able to reach it if I go for them too. 

 

TJ Agulto:  In the line of ultimately empowering the nanays, I see Hapinoy and Rags 2 Riches ultimately making that shift of consciousness.  I don’t know if you’ve read The Secret, what’s in your head, what’s in your conscience, that’s what you’re going to create in your lives.  So ultimately, all of what we give the nanays, they will only last if there’s a change or shift in their consciousness, and that’s where we are now.  I also want to promote Hapinoy and Rags 2 Riches—a consciousness from quantity to abundance, from mediocrity to excellence, a consciousness from failure to a lot opportunity.  That shift in consciousness will ultimately create the changes in the Philippines that will ultimately inspire other people to go for it.